Curse

Mardock T · Nov 15, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

well im wodering if this is a playable class so there should be a male assasin.

no?...hmm nick the assassin maybe?

unienaule · Nov 15, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

They could add some new skill type unaffected by expertise. There are so many ways they could do this, it's just pointless to argue about "such and so is overpowered" when it doesn't exist and we have no idea how it would be implemented if it did exist. I've seen some pretty lame arguments in my day, and been a part of some of them, but arguing over stuff that doesn't exist? Seriously.

aron searle · Nov 15, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

They could add some new skill type unaffected by expertise. There are so many ways they could do this, it's just pointless to argue about "such and so is overpowered" when it doesn't exist and we have no idea how it would be implemented if it did exist. I've seen some pretty lame arguments in my day, and been a part of some of them, but arguing over stuff that doesn't exist? Seriously.

sorry sir, can i have your permission to express my opoinion

seriously, if people want to discuss/critisis/or moan let them.

Roza · Nov 15, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

We can tell only few things: there will be daggers involved and most likely dual wielding (there is a little more then the pic). The assassin will be able to use a long blade as well.

My guess is that the primary atribute will be dual wielding or something like that (so a war will with high armour will not be able to utilize that), not sneak.

Sneaking will be hard to implement (if the assassins really have sneak). This has been discussed many, many times on this and other forums. If Anet introduce this sort of skill, you can be sure that they will have thought long and hard about it and about it's use in both pvp and pve.

Quote:

"Wah! It's not original."

To which someone else replied.

"Yeah, 'cause a monk, a warrior, a ranger, an elementalist, and a necromancer are pretty unique."

I was attempting sarcasm there. I don't mind standard, somewhat cliché role-playing archetypes. Fantasy is all about those. As long as they are fun and balanced.

unienaule · Nov 15, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

My point is, discuss WHAT? There is nothing to discuss worth arguing about! We dont know weapon types, skills, or attributes. It's called Assassin. Speculation I can take, but "No you're wrong dual weild isn't overpowered"... um... in the way that nonexistent skills aren't overpowered.

In case this is unclear, I'm saying speculate all you want, but don't insult people over imaginary stuff.

aron searle · Nov 15, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

, but don't insult people over imaginary stuff.

fair enough, but then thats universal not insulting people.

and you didnt make that clear enough

unienaule · Nov 15, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Imaginary != computers. Guild Wars as it is is not imaginary.

Phades · Nov 15, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

They could add some new skill type unaffected by expertise.

Yep and should that occur, then i cant wait for the couple weeks of waiting for the bug to strike all the other energy efficiency options not working like they did before ch2.

It could easily go the other way though and have a dark fury powered assasin using an adrenalin attack every swing as a byproduct of dual weilding. In either direction you go, there are potential "problems" with the situation. A "fear me" assasin would be downright disgusting in pvp, you wouldn't even have to echo the skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

My point is, discuss WHAT? There is nothing to discuss worth arguing about! We dont know weapon types, skills, or attributes. It's called Assassin. Speculation I can take, but "No you're wrong dual weild isn't overpowered"... um... in the way that nonexistent skills aren't overpowered.

In case this is unclear, I'm saying speculate all you want, but don't insult people over imaginary stuff.

As i illustrated above, its very easy to place existing mechanics and existing skills into a potentially unbalanced combination, given the implication of the existing character. The character its self may not be imbalanced, but every character so far compromises a combination of 2 classes.

Esprit · Nov 15, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I'd say almost every RPG game out there have comparable classes. Rogue/Thief/Assassin, call it what you want, every game of this type has overlapping classes. It's hard to make a new class that doesn't incorporate realistic skills from other classes.

Look at Baldur's Gate 2, and the Bard class, not the most useful class.

Plus a Roge/Assassin class is always fun to play, in any game. Why should Guild Wars not have it? Because they should be original? I'll wait until the Assassin skills are released, because until then, it's too hard to judge originality.

I look forward to seeing local chat being spammed with 50 Assassins looking for a group.

Antc · Nov 15, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoteo

stealh ?we dont even have a walk option

anyway - could desapear from minimap for like 5 to 10 sec ... mobs would not atack ... this would made this babys hell of good runners , hiding stealh style.

cool ideia

the theme assassin doesnt fit me also tho .. should be something more medieval , assassin reminds of someone with a sniper rifle right there.

According to history, assassins have been around since the 7th century AD....medievil enough for ya?

Pevil Lihatuh · Nov 15, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

hmm also mixed feelings. And I'm gonna go with Asplode and put in some stuff I think *could* work for assassin. Couple of our ideas are the same actually. lol.

Weapon types
Claws: Dual wield. They do minimal damage but hit fast (say 1.5x faster than warrior).
Daggers/knives: Dual or single wield. Do more damage than claws, less than swords. Hit slightly faster than swords (say 1.2x faster).

They can of course use any other weapons as well.

Armour:
Less than ranger/warriors, only slightly more than e/mo/n/me's. Generally look like soft leather/cloth, dark colouring and perhaps 'broken' outlines to give that "I'm not here" look.

Attributes
Stealth As Asplode says, this could be where your enemies aggro bubble 'decreases' in pve (not sure in pvp what it could do really - maybe fade your blip out more and more - maxed it would be very very hard to see) but also has some stealth type skills attached. Primary Attrib.
Claw Mastery Skills that work when dual wielding claw-type weapons.
Dagger Mastery Concentrate on dagger/knife weapon skills. Some may require dual wield, others work single or dual.
no name yet not sure what it can do but have some skill ideas (see below)

Skills
Stealth: probably not many of them. These would be instead of the typical "run" type skills perhaps (for when you're in danger and need to lose aggro) or may have some that work only if you're behind an enemy (i.e. similar to 'Backstab' in D&D but the stealth attrib determines how much extra dmg you do)
Claw: bleed targets and interrupt. perhaps have deep wound in there as well.
Dagger: poison skills. Also have some slowdown skills (hamstring type of effects)
*no name yet*: Perhaps sacrificial type skills. Maybe even introduce a 'blow dart' type thing. These skills would increase your damage but with huge pitfalls. Say you go for a killing blow. You'd have a chance to do 100dmg but whilst attempting it your armour is reduced by 70% or something like that.

meh these ideas probably suck, but its fun to speculate

And I feel better about the class after thinking about it, even if it turns out nothing like this!

Stellar StarElven · Nov 15, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Just my own impressions and speculations here going from what I have seen/heard around various places.

I will first mention that I don't PvP so my insights won't cover that side of the concept...

There has been hinting at a rogue type coming by the PTB for some time now, so the revelation of this new class is hardly a surprise to me.

I suspect that one skill in particular relevance to PvE will be the ability to "lockpick" chests. Especially in the high-end zones where keys are expensive this skill would prove invaluable.
Along that line of thought another possible skill which can be imagined will likely be some sort of "pickpocket" which can be used on mobs.

Duel-wield has also been hinted at in various circles and thus it's no real surprise they combined these two into a single new char class.
While nothing that I speak of here is anything more than my own theories/speculations...I suspect that the additional "off-hand weapon" will simply be something specialized in line with the existing off hand items. Likely similar to shields being mostly useful to warriors (for example "while in stance") these "off-hand weapons" will likely provide only a limited bonus to melee attacks in a range equivalent to the existing shield items... ie. +16 damage bonus, or possibly improved crit chance. I find it highly unlikely that the existing one-handed weapons will be usable on the offhand slot. From an implementation perspective it makes far more sense that they would just add a new type of "off-hand" item. Anyhow...moving on.

The mention of and stategic options inherent in stealth are one aspect which I personally have felt have been lacking from the game up to this point. Basically the mobs can always see you if you get within a certain distance and vice/versa. The possibility of stealth spec'd mobs/bosses is also, IMO, highly likely to be seen in the upcoming chapter. This has been present to a degree in some of the mobs abilities to appear suddenly from out of seemingly thin air (ie. Spiders dropping, Devourers surfacing, Phantoms appearing, etc.) Obviously the mobs must become visible before attacking, and I suspect that the playable form of Stealth will likely function in some similar manner. Being able to get near without being detected, but becoming visible for a few precious moments before an attack may be launched. I also suspect that an assortment of "detection" skills will be sprinkled through the existing classes as a matter of balancing and fairness. I personally feel that Stealth adds an additional factor of strategy which brings battle above the standard of simple hack/slashing.

Considering that 5 of the 6 existing classes are mainly "ranged" and that the assassin (at least as it is presented in the article) would be an upclose and personal melee combatant seems by far the most likely theory. The possibility of it also being capable of short-range throwing seems feasable, however I suspect the primary usage will be close-range. While I am only guessing, I would not be at all surprised to see this new class use some type of "combo-point" system of melee similar to what is used currently in WOW. Having various combo skills and a few executes to release the built up combo point que. That, to me, seems more in following with the GW style of skill manipulation in my perception.

The concept that Cantha will be included in the upcoming chapter sounds very feasable and in following with the basic story. The rumor/need for an auction system also would fit well with that genre and I would not be at all surprised if there is an auction house made available in that region...providing that is the direction they go with it.

I would only be guessing at how this new class would factor into PvP so I won't even try to go that route, as I mentioned earlier...it's just not my thing.

All in all I speculate that this class will likely prove to be an interesting addition to the existing strategy of skill usage/manipulation. I for one am very interested in seeing how they decide to incorporate it. As for the grouping aspect...I agree that it seems odd for such a figure to "band together" with others, however no more odd than a necro joining a group with a monk and vice versa.

Anyhow, that's my theory on it... I could be entirely off-base and way off in left field of course, but it's all speculation at this point until the new chapter comes out and actual playing of it takes place.

unienaule · Nov 15, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Hm, never thought of lockpicking before. That could be interesting, it would make 2 different farmers, A/W or A/R chestrunners and the typical Mo/W or W/Mos...

Esprit · Nov 15, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

If you can read the fine print of the scan, you will see a skill mentioned. Shadow Stepping. (The words are capitalized, indicating that it is a skill.)

The end of the lore:

""Yes, Master." Nika fastened the silk across her face, and with a wisp of smoke, she disappeared, Shadow Stepping from the chamber."

Align · Nov 15, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Yes, we've already talked about it though.
I don't think dual is going to be more than cosmetic - the problems with warrior secondaries using For Great Justice and other adrenaline boosters would be huge if you got 2 strikes whenever you attacked.

Aera Lure · Nov 15, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I'm sure a new profession is going to be balanced to work within the current system. I am also sure that it wont be possible to add a flexible profession template (ie, somewhat generic off of which to develop the specific attributes and skills for said profession) without choosing one of the expected archetypes of fantasy RPG lore. We're sure to see a couple more professions that wont "surprise" us. The mystery remains in how they are used and implemented, and frankly, we're way too far away from the release of Ch 2 to have any info on that.

Cheers to Anet. Hope we have 4 in total, and the slots to actually be able to use them.

Inde · Nov 15, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Espirit you pointed out something very good there

"Yes, Master." Nika fastened the silk across her face, and with a wisp of smoke, she disappeared, Shadow Stepping from the chamber."

Shadow Stepping... hmmm. The mind is racing.

I don't know what's with all the negativity about this. Maybe, for those cynics at heart they should rename the class just to put to rest all the originality ideas. Everyone has all ready stereotyped and slaughtered the character without it being introduced just by the name! What if the class was called something simple like... Shadow. That brings another ring to it, and then you can speculate and stereotype from there. Or Slayer, which brings to mind a warrior and would have everyone saying... it's a remake of the warrior. The point being, it's just a name. It could add a completely different dimension to the game for both PvP and PvE.

Until we hear more information let's keep the talk to nitpicking the article for things such as Espirit found and speculating on valid information and dreaming of what we'd like to see from the character. (Maybe they'll read and be inspired!) There is no need for anymore one-liners commenting on how "unoriginal" this is (it's been stated) or casual comments on your like or dislike without any contribution to the discussion. This is a discussion forum, so let's discuss.

Pyrea · Nov 15, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Excellent!!!

Can't wait to see how the Assassin class will pan out.

Here's a nice skill though that would go well:

Shadow Stance: For 5-15 secs your aggro bubble is reduced by 20%-75%

Goonter · Nov 15, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

A reduction in the aggro circle is pointless in PvP.
If there is it would exsist for stealth skills.
For instance, your foe can not detect you (PvP too) while they are outside your aggro circle while using certain stealth skills.

Im assuming while you are stealthed you will be limited in either movement, your ability to attack or use a skill or a combination of the three.

I guess some of the melee type attacks will be attacks of oppertunity. Something like - wait 6 secs, if foe attacks/cast a spell/whatever then you strike for +damage and critical hit.

So it would work like this - Activate stealth. Get within attack range and activite attack of oppertunity. Once foe makes a mistake, you unstealth and hit them hard. Snare foe (if hes still alive) and run, repeat.

I could be wrong on this one, but maybe they will be better suited vs. rangers rather than casters and warriors.
Rangers are a casters thorn as it is and they are somewhat of a harded target that the other classes dont counter naturally.

They will be able to detect, remove and even replace traps, evade arrows, and close in on the target swiftly. To balance this, rangers will be better suited in detecting them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Maybe, for those cynics at heart they should rename the class just to put to rest all the originality ideas. Everyone has all ready stereotyped and slaughtered the character without it being introduced just by the name! What if the class was called something simple like... Shadow. That brings another ring to it, and then you can speculate and stereotype from there. Or Slayer, which brings to mind a warrior and would have everyone saying... it's a remake of the warrior. The point being, it's just a name. It could add a completely different dimension to the game for both PvP and PvE.

I agree. Rangers encompass druids and archers. Mesmers encompass rouges, bards and enchanters. Monks encompass priest, bards and ...monks. There really is a lot of mishmash in the 6 classes of GW. I hope the assasin will be part samuri/ninja/rouge and with it a name that will set it apart.

...and I dont think they will be picking locks unless Anet decides to add PvE specific skills for all classes to the game.

Align · Nov 15, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

It could reduce the range at which the assassin can be attacked as well. Like so;
Shadow Stance: For 5-15 secs your aggro bubble is reduced by 20%-75%. Also, foes must be 0%-40% closer to you than normal to use any ranged attack or skill. Shadow Stance ends if you take damage.